The Council of Adventist Pastors recently became aware of a new, independently produced video we think will help viewers better understand the crisis over women’s ordination in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. While deeper study is important, this captivating animation provides a concise overview of the ordination crisis. Viewers are invited to join us in sharing this presentation far and wide!

66 thoughts on “Women’s Ordination Crisis Overview!

  1. The truth….. It doesn’t get any better than this….
    Those that ignore this, are the ones that want to change the word of “GOD”. by conforming to the ideal cultural of this world…
    Serving “GOD” anyway they want too

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  2. There are many who claim to have the “Truth”, but can anyone who does not have the Truth, “fall away” From the Truth? (2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV)

    3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[a] is revealed, the son of perdition,

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  3. I agree that Womens Ordination is a very important topic and that we should stand for the Biblical truth of no womens ordination. BUT i do not believe that it is the most important crisis in our church today. I believe that the most important crisis is that MOST SDA,s do not know our foundational truths well enough to prove them from the Bible. We are not saved in groups, but as individuals. We are told that we will have to stand before kings and governors and give a reason for our faith and if we cannot do that we will become confused. After we become confused will we stand for something that we cannot even explain? A very solemn question !!!

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    • Very well said. This is not just an issue of what is truth or not but whether or not we as individuals know what is truth based on scripture not what our pastor, elder, or friends say.

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      • The real danger is that we can study the Bible on our own (like Eve being alone to face off with the serpent, she knew what god said, and even quoted His words, but was still deceived?) and have a the “Spirit” impress our minds so that we think we understand the “truth” and we can sincerely believe we are in the right, BUT NO prophecy of the Bible is of any private interpretation, but is open to public scrutiny and investigation and examination. Here is what I trying to say;

        As real spiritual life declines, it has ever been the tendency to cease to advance in the knowledge of the truth. Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God’s word and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative and seek to avoid discussion. {5T 706.2}

        The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition and worship they know not what. {5T 707.1}

        I have been shown that many who profess to have a knowledge of present truth know not what they believe. They do not understand the evidences of their faith. They have no just appreciation of the work for the present time. When the time of trial shall come, there are men now preaching to others who will find, upon examining | 300 limit

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  4. Excellent comments! I found this quote in Adventist Home pg.179.1
    The Secret of Family Unity—The cause of division and discord in families and in the church is separation from Christ. To come near to Christ is to come near to one another. The secret of true unity in the church and in the family is not diplomacy, not management, not a superhuman effort to overcome difficulties—though there will be much of this to do—but union with Christ. – {AH 179.1
    Join me in praying for revival and reformation and may God’s will be done on earth (and in the Church) as it is in heaven.

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  5. A continuing distraction developed by Satan to keep God’s remnant people from preparing for the Sunday Law crisis just ahead. Keep us battling over something that is clearly defined in the Bible so that we do not study out the events connected with the close of probation and prepare ourselves for His seal.

    “The events connected with the close of probation and the work of preparation for the time of trouble, are clearly presented. But multitudes have no more understanding of these important truths than if they had never been revealed. Satan watches to catch away every impression that would make them wise unto salvation, and the time of trouble will find them unready. ” {GC 594.1}

    The events are clearly presented but MULTITUDES have no more understanding than if they were never revealed. The multitudes are Seventh day Adventists who are wrapped up in controversies placed before them by Satan to keep them from preparing for the time of trouble looming on the horizon. Oh that God’s people would awake! But the virgins sleep on…

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  6. Did Jesus say “Women cannot be ordained to pastoral ministry”?

    In the first place, how were church elders ordained by the early NT church, when no clergy exists in those days? While it is certainly clear that Jesus is the head of the church, never can one find a thus saith the Lord that “the cleric is the head of the church.” Clearly the SDA so-called doctrine on ordination is conflicted and confused. Only when post-NT tradition and interpretation are applied can the current practice finds ground. Apparently the practices of catholic priesthood is being used to infer that the head of the congregation are clerics – to which the debate springs against traditional practice that only males have been “ordained.” Other than this apostate practice, the only thus saith the Lord so far is “Jesus is the head of the church” that points neither to the General Conference nor an individual “ordained” pastor.

    I will follow mainstream Seventh-day Adventist belief if that makes me stay in the church I love. But all I see floating today are arguments, not a clear “thus saith the Lord.”

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    • No one is say that a “cleric” is the head of the church and thus taking the place of Jesus.

      It was Christ Himself Who started the NT Church and built it upon the “foundation of apostles and prophets” (that is the 12) who He called and ordained as Apostles and then sent the out to preach and make disciples. There Apostles along with Christ as the Chief Corner Stone, formed the FOUNDATION of the Church, and they were all men. They went forth and ordained elders in EVERY church and in EVERY city, none of who were women. And Why did they do that. Paul tells us that elders MUST BE the husbands of one wife,” or morally faithful family men. Women just cannot be husbands and fathers, and “IF a man does not know how to rule his children and care for his own family, how can he care for the Church Family. Pastoral Ministry is contingent upon a man keeping his home in order as the head of the family.

      And there is you clear “Thus, saith the LORD.”

      The MainStream Seventh-day Adventist belief is the current position of the World Church of 18 Million members, “we do not approve ordination of women to the gospel ministry” GC Session 1990 and this OFFICIALLY VOTE position is still the view the Seventh-day Adventist Church holds today.

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      • Jewish culture explains Jewish practices, which may not apply to non-Jewish organizations, such as our church any more than the priesthood, passed on to other denominations.

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  7. In the professedly Christian world many turn away from the plain teachings of the Bible and build up a creed from human speculations and pleasing fables, and they point to their tower as a way to climb up to heaven. People hang with admiration upon the lips of eloquence while it teaches that the transgressor shall not die, that salvation may be secured without obedience to the law of God. If the professed followers of Christ would accept God’s standard, it would bring them into unity; but so long as human wisdom is exalted above His Holy Word, there will be divisions and dissension. {CTr 70.4}

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    • The unaltered quote is found in PP 124.1:
      “In the professedly Christian world many turn away from the plain teachings of the Bible and build up a creed from human speculations and pleasing fables, and they point to their tower as a way to climb up to heaven. Men hang with admiration upon the lips of eloquence while it teaches that the transgressor shall not die, that salvation may be secured without obedience to the law of God. If the professed followers of Christ would accept God’s standard, it would bring them into unity; but so long as human wisdom is exalted above His Holy Word, there will be divisions and dissension.”

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      • This is an excellent quote and well worth repeating. The problem is Ellen White did not apply this quote to the women’s ordination issue. In fact, the quote does not apply. There is no “plain teaching” of the Bible that prohibits WO. Nobody is suggesting Adventists mandate WO as part of their creed. Those conferences that are employing women as pastors are not transgressors. Neither are local churches who have female elders. I have not heard that any advocates of WO are teaching that salvation may be secured without obedience to the law of God. Was Paul using merely human wisdom when he wrote, “I am all things to all people that I might by all means win some?”

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        • Actually, it applies to all division and dissension. This is a proof that God’s word is being disregarded. Since there is division and dissension over this issue, we can be certain that God’s word is being disregarded. When God’s word is followed, division and dissension will vanish.

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          • Yes, it applies to “divisions and dissension,” but it does not identify which side of the WO issue is at fault. It is not speaking to the issue of WO. It is likely that both sides have made some mistakes.Ellen White teaches that disunity need not be the result of Bible students disagreeing over the meaning of texts.

        • There most certainly is proof in the Bible. How could u have missed it. There isn’t a ‘thou shall not’ in scripture, but paul clearly explains the roles and requirements for any ordained leadership position in the church…thus saith the Lord. Since the church is the bride of Christ – then all leadership positions are filled by MEN that represent Christ. Jesus Christ created HIS culture for HIS church in the garden of Eden – placing men (was Adam before the fall) in the leadership position. Women are equal with men as far as salvation goes – but they are expected to be submissive to their husband and any male in leadership role as Christ is submissive to God.

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        • How I wish we each of the liberals had our own heaven we could take people to and set our own standards and make our own allowances and accommodations. Trouble is there is no such place. The conferences that employ women as pastors are in transgression in as much as there is no Bible example or precedent of a woman IN CHARGE of the temple of God and the church body is a temple of God. You can look the whole Bible over, no woman was ever an Elder or a Bishop or a Deacon or Apostle. To attempt a psychological coup by categorical intimidation and equivocation is an old trick Doug. Not working.

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      • Doug, it is true this is a quote that is a general truth. By studying the Bible it becomes apparent that topics such as women’s ordination, infant baptism, Sunday keeping are implicitly addressed by both precept and practice even though they are not explicitly stated. Therefore, division within the church is a result of adding to God’s word by introducing worship practices deviating from God’s directions in such things as infant baptism, Sunday keeping, women’s ordination.
        The division is not caused by those who contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints, but by the innovators. Such additions to God’s worship directions, like the modifications of Cain or King Ahaz, are strictly forbidden.

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        • How would Adventists categorize the following activities?

          Sunday-keeping, circumcising, lying, making graven images, committing adultery, keeping Passover, appointing priests that must be male, dishonouring parents, stealing, appointing priests that must be without any physical blemishes.

          I believe most Adventists would put Sunday-keeping, lying, making graven images, committing adultery, dishonouring parents, and stealing in one category.

          And most Adventists would put circumcising, keeping Passover, appointing priests that must be male, and appointing priests that must be without any physical blemish in a different category.

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      • Speaking approvingly of those Protestants that could only be satisfied by a worship conforming strictly to God’s word the servant of the Lord said, “They reasoned that God has in His word established the regulations governing His worship, and that men are not at liberty to add to these or to detract from them. The very beginning of the great apostasy was in seeking to supplement the authority of God by that of the church” (GC 289).
        Frankly, your reasoning is precisely the same line of reasoning I hear from my Sunday keeping friends.
        This is not simply a matter of a difference of opinion. One of us is dead wrong. Jesus warned, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.”
        Adventists acknowledge there is a precept to ordain men. Adventists acknowledge there is example of men being ordained. Adventists acknowledge that there is no precept for women being ordained. For any humble follower of God, that is all the information needed to know God’s will. To go outside of God’s instruction is to say the Bible is insufficient to guide us. It is to manifest the highest type of pride. And it results in vain worship, division, and disunity.

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    • Wow! Did that statement speak to the real reason for “divisions” among us about Women’s Ordination or what?

      “If the professed followers of Christ would accept God’s standard, it would bring them into unity; but so long as human wisdom is exalted above His Holy Word, there will be divisions and dissension.”

      “It is the duty of MINISTERS to respect the judgment of their brethren; but their relations to one another, as well as the doctrines they teach, should be brought to THE TEST of the law and the testimony; then, IF HEARTS ARE TEACHABLE, there will be NO DIVISIONS AMONG US. Some are inclined to be disorderly, and are drifting away from the great landmarks of the faith; but God is moving upon His MINISTERS to be ONE in DOCTRINE and in SPIRIT.” {CET 203.1}

      RPM~ God does not just want us to be united agreeing to pray about these matters and agreeing to pray together, and for unity . . . BUT that we actual come to the place of “perfect unity” in thinking, believing, and judging and concluding the same things. How is this so?

      This ONENESS for which Jesus prayer is the same for which Paul desired the church in Corinth, as well as ALL believers . . .

      1 Corinthians 1:10-18 10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that YE ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye be PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER IN THE SAME MIND AND THE SAME JUDGMENT. {divisions: Gr. schisms} 

      11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of | 300 limit

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  8. My line of reasoning is the same as that of your Sunday keeping friends? What is their line of reasoning, and I will tell you if there is any resemblance?

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    • Adventists do not agree that there is any precept to ordain men and men only. Adventists do not agree there are specific examples in Scripture of men being ordained as both elders and pastors. Adventists do not agree there is no precept for women being ordained.
      We, as Adventists, do disagree on these points–even though you seem reluctant to admit it. What is evil about placing a hand on someone’s shoulder or head and offering a prayer that God will bless her in her preaching, teaching, visitation, giving Bible studies, chairing meetings, etc.?

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      • Doug, just because “Adventist don’t agree about what the Bible says” does not mean the Bible doesn’t say it. Christians don’t agree on which day is the Sabbath, does that mean no one knows what day the Sabbath is? Or that The Seventh-day is not the Sabbath of the LORD thy God?

        The Bible teach Men’s Ordination and does NOT teach Women’s Ordination, whether Adventist agree on this or not makes no difference as to whether the Bible teaches men should be ordained “in EVERY church” and “in EVERY city” (Acts 14:23 & Titus 1:4-5) and that they were ONLY Men who were elders/pastors over church congregations.

        Now just because there is disagreement among the 18 Million Adventists DOES NOT mean the Bible now teaches Women’s Ordination! It just means that some Adventist are NOT accepting what the Bible says just like some Christians are not accepting what the Bible says about the 7th Day Sabbath!

        “Does the Bible forbid the ordination of women?” This is a different question than “Does the Bible say; Women are forbidden from ordination?”

        The second question is a theological tactic or ploy that sets up a preprogramed answers, which is obviously the Bible DOES NOT say “Thou shalt not ordain women,” BUT it does not have to! for just by saying the “elder MUST BE . . . the husband of one wife” is sufficient to keep all women from being ordained as elders or pastors, because the have to be MALE in order to be “husbands,” and since it is a physical impossibility for a woman to be a husband, then it is also impossible for her to be an elder, elders are men not women.

        The Biblical example of Jesus not ordaining women, nor the apostles ordaining women, IN CONTRAST to them | 300 limit

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      • Not working Doug. What Adventists do or do not agree on is never the test of truth. We not only know the will of God from His direct utterances. We learn it from His deeds and God never appointed a woman as priestly AUTHORITY over a congregation or the temple. Actions speak louder than words here. God never anointed a woman to ANY authoritative positions in the Temple or in the living Temple. To play with our minds as you attempt to do will only appeal to those who have cast aside their spiritual discernment for the thrills of intellectual fascination. Argument is not always the ultimate arbiter.

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  9. The bible is clear regarding God’s purpose for men and their place in the church. But what about women? What is our purpose? If everything is run by men, what are we suppose to do?

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    • Biology says there are certain roles that women may not perform, and it is right. Culture says the same, but it is wrong. Like the punch line of the old joke, “The doctor was his mother.”

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    • A Co-worker With the Minister—The minister has his line of work, and the mother has hers. – {AH 236.1}

      No Work Is Greater or Holier—If married men go into the work, leaving their wives to care for the children at home, the wife and mother is doing fully as great and important a work as the husband and father. Although one is in the missionary field, the other is a home missionary, whose cares and anxieties and burdens frequently far exceed those of the husband and father. Her work is a solemn and important one…. The husband in the open missionary field may receive the honors of men, while the home toiler may receive no earthly credit for her labor. But if she works for the best interest of her family, seeking to fashion their characters after the divine Model, the recording angel writes her name as one of the greatest missionaries in the world. God does not see things as man’s finite vision views them. [13] – {AH 235.1}
      The mother is God’s agent to Christianize her family. … – {AH 235.2}

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    • I appreciate the honesty and openness of your question. To me it is indicative of the fall-out that is to be expected when people start pushing for Women’s Ordination.

      It creates the illusion that to be ordained a pastor/elder is the only way you can be involved in the work of the church, and if that is barred from you, well tough luck, you are unimportant. While the truth is that the work of a pastor/elder, though important, is only a very small part of the work of the church. Lay members (should) do the bulk of the work, but our model of church has become too pastor-centered and it cripples the church. Members become consumers and pastors become their babysitters….

      Just like in the garden of Eden, there was great liberty and 1 restriction, but the Devil deceived our first parents into believing that God had given us almost no freedom and great restrictions, now the devil has deceived us that if women are prohibited from being ordained as elders/pastors, they are immensely restricted, while the truth is that those who want to labour for souls have abundant opportunity to do so.

      Ellen White has a famously abused quoted where she speaks about how men and women can be pastors to the flock in doing colporteur and door to door work (cuz that has a pastoral side to it as well, but this quote is abused to justify ordination to the office of elder/minister), which is a very worthy and needed work right now; canvassers that pastor, bible workers that pastor, evangelists that pastor, mothers that pastor, health educators that pastor, and a whole host of other pursuits in service of God.

      The real question then is… what about the Word of God? Is it important enough to respect it and follow it wherever it leads? Why risk compromising the perfect word of truth by pushing for WO?

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      • No illusion. The church has never taught that a man must be ordained to be involved in church work.

        We must certainly respect the Word of God and follow it wherever it leads. But is the opposition to WO willing to do so in a detailed way?

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        • You are one of those ‘twist every word’ type of persons. A man doesn’t have to be ordained to do the work God expects us to do. They can be missionaries, canvassing, bible studies, visit the sick, help the pastor with his duties, be an evangelist (many women did this at camp meetings in EGW days btw), etc.

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    • Here’s your answer . . .

      God’s Word To The Nations Titus 2:1, 3-5

      1 Tell believers to live the kind of life that goes along with accurate teachings. . .

      3 Tell older women to live their lives in a way that shows they are dedicated to God. Tell them not to be gossips or addicted to alcohol, but to be examples of virtue.

      4 In this way they will teach young women to show love to their husbands and children,

      5 to use good judgment, and to be morally pure. Also, tell them to teach young women to be homemakers, to be kind, and . . . .

      to place themselves under their husbands’ authority. Then no one can speak evil of God’s word.

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    • Lorissa Tino “But what about women? What is our purpose? If everything is run by men, what are we suppose to do?”

      Here’s your answer . . .

      God’s Word To The Nations Titus 2:1, 3-5

      1 Tell believers to live the kind of life that goes along with accurate teachings. . .

      3 Tell older women to live their lives in a way that shows they are dedicated to God. Tell them not to be gossips or addicted to alcohol, but to be examples of virtue.

      4 In this way they will teach young women to show love to their husbands and children,

      5 to use good judgment, and to be morally pure. Also, tell them to teach young women to be homemakers, to be kind, and . . . .

      to place themselves under their husbands’ authority. Then no one can speak evil of God’s word.
      (Admin; Sorry I put this in the wrong location previous to this post, please delete that one and retain this one)

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  10. Just as water and oil both have different roles in keeping your car engine going, take either away and see how long it will run. God made the Sabbath and Family before sin entered the garden for a reason. Women certainly have a purpose as well as men (Titus 2:3-5;1 Timothy 2:9-15;Gen 3:16;1 Peter 3:1-7).

    The day of God will reveal how much the world owes to godly mothers….
    When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened; when the “well done” of the great Judge is pronounced, and the crown of immortal glory is placed upon the brow of the victor, many will raise their crowns in sight of the assembled universe, and pointing to their mother say: “She made me all I am through the grace of God. Her instruction, her prayers, have been blessed to my eternal salvation.” EGW My Life Today pg 21

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  11. I’m curious as to the origin of this video.

    The write up on this page says:
    “The Council of Adventist Pastors recently became aware of a new, independently produced video we think will help viewers better understand the crisis over women’s ordination in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.”

    On the video itself there is no authorship given. However, at the end it says to visit ordinationtruth.com for more information.

    So, my question: did the managers of ordinationtruth.com truly only become “become aware” of the video and posted it after it was produced? Did the author of the video reference ordinationtruth.com without the knowledge or permission of the Council of Adventist Pastors and the managers of the ordinationtruth.com website?

    I’d understood ordinationtruth.com to be the mouthpiece for CAP. If this is correct, it’s disingenuous to talk in terms of CAP having “become aware” of the video if, in fact, they produced it, assisted in its production, or were aware of its production.

    It would be helpful if the authors of the video would stand up and be counted, rather than hiding behind websites and usernames like CreedMe, the uploader of the video.

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    • Gerald, There is an article at ADVindicate telling more of the background about the video and who produced it. We found out about the video just a few days before it was released. We did know that it would advertise OrdinationTruth.com at the end. After reviewing the video we were good with that. TO find a list of the pastors who by personal choice are part of the Council of Adventist Pastors, please review this list: List of OrdinationTruth.com (CAP) Council of Adventist Pastors. The pastors on this list are honored to be publicly and openly associated with CAP.

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      • Thanks for the pointer to ADVindicate. I wonder why the authors didn’t take credit/responsibility for their creation in the video itself? Any ideas?

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        • Humility.
          Fear of persecution.
          Between those pick your favorite.

          There is no need to motive monger and nitpick insignificant details

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  12. Dear brethren,
    The church today faces a myriad of challenges which if not carefully handled and spirit led will break the unity that we have enjoyed as a Christian church. It really makes me wonder as to why at this critical time in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 we should now indulge on issues that are non issues Biblically. this is the time to thrust all our energies in the spread of the gospel truth. Please ideologies of men should not be allowed to triumph over the Bible truth. God is no respector of persons but He holds in high esteem those that show love to Him by being doers of His word. Please Pastors with your heavy titles don’t mislead the church of God. Humble your selves before the Lord and stick to the Bible.
    Arthur

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    • “Please ideologies of men should not be allowed to triumph over the Bible truth.”

      Arthur, that is precisely the reason this website exists—to counter human ideologies with the Word of God. Popular culture is insisting that gender and sexual identity as defined by God’s Word should be set aside for an uncompromising egalitarianism. But the Bible forbids such blurring of divinely-established roles.

      Hence the present controversy. Hence this website. And hence the imperative of saying an unflinching No at the upcoming world session of the church to the present crusade for interchangeable gender roles in denominational ministry.

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      • ARTHUR MBAHWE said on April 16, 2015 at 12:47 pm:

        “Dear brethren,
        . . . why at this critical time in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 we should now indulge on issues that are non issues Biblically. This is the time to thrust all our energies in the spread of the gospel truth. . . . ideologies of men should not be allowed to triumph over the Bible truth. . . .

        Humble your selves before the Lord and stick to the Bible.”

        The Bible tells us to “contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints” and this by necessity involves addressing false doctrines being introduced into the church and dealing with those who creep into house teaching things they should not. This is part of the ministry of church elders and pastors!

        Titus 1 Modern English Version (MEV)

        Salutation

        1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth which leads to godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before the world began, 3 and has in due time revealed His word through preaching, with which I was entrusted according to the command of God our Savior,

        4 To Titus, my own son in the common faith:

        Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

        Titus’ Work in Crete

        5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city, as I commanded you: 6 any man who is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children who are not accused of being wild or unruly. 7 For an overseer must be blameless, | 300 limit

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    • Why do u think this isn’t a Biblical issue? It most certainly is – it is a resounding thus saith the Lord against WO. The will of God is very clear in Paul’s letters about who the ordained leaders should be in Christ’s church – MEN because they are Christ’s reps in HIS church, which is his bride. and many of these trusted men (headship) have been abusing his wife. Those leaders in some unions are in open rebellion against God & think that Christ is going to let them get away with blatantly ignoring his Word & illegally breaking their own policy by ordaining women when the GC has not passed anything approving it yet. The unions have no right to do this without GC permission to do so. This is apostasy.

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  13. This WO issue is not a Biblical issue, not even a theological question let alone a salvation issue. It is pure politics. It is not designed to solve a problem. It is just what it is, something to trouble the church with. It shifts focus and confuses matters as it is designed to. What the members of the church may need to learn from it all is that our church headquarters is no longer the best place to look for light on what God would have us do at this time. We have to go to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy for ourselves and spend time on our knees seeking Divine guidance for our personal lives and our personal duty. We should support our local church heartily and strengthen it and its outreach programs. We should strengthen our relationships with sister congregations and collude in matters concerning the giving of our message. While we should retain a loyalty to all of God’s remnant church members and insist on unity of spirit, doctrine and purpose, we must ensure God alone is our Source on matters doctrinal and He alone should cue us on matters ideological. We can only bless our leadership if we retain our own integrity and that is our first duty. We should know God for ourselves. Daniel says when we do that we will be strong and do exploits. We have to look away from men and women as our “thus says”. We have God. This issue more than any other teaches us to be wary of the leadership of man on matters of conscience. We should be Protestants, free men and women under God and loyal to the same. The serpent is in the tree again: talking. How did we wonder into this space where he lives? How did we wander after the Beast? We got drunk on academic approval and accolades and social acceptance and….We got drunk.

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    • How could you be so obtuse regarding this issue. It is a Biblical issue – but most importantly it is a MORAL issue. There is much GUILE going on and Christ’s leaders (ordained men receiving a salary from Christ’s tithe) in leadership positions are blatantly ignoring God’s will in his word regarding WHO can be ordained for church leadership roles of minister, elder and decons. Paul makes this perfectly clear in the Bible & so does EGW. The church is currently in apostasy – actually blasphemy as some leaders are setting their desires above Christ’s will via thus says the Lord.

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  14. The world is quite intoxicating; its influence quite asphyxiating. What we have here is not just seepage of the world’s influence. I think we are dealing with active mischief which needs a robust and positive rebuttal and then we need to ensure that we regain control of the process of selecting leadership. The church needs to wake up across the board North America in particular needs to wake up and lead again. It is true that for many years there has been a leavening process in North America brought on by a very aggressive secular environment and a robust materialism. North America has attempted to culturally march with the world and almost forgot its mission and responsibility to the world work. A pride and isolationist stance has pervaded the churches there and the sense of mission has died. It its place we have seen all kinds of superfluous innovative academic choreography. North America needs to finish what it started. It needs to rediscover itself in those little red books and lead. The work is not finished. We need to rediscover the spirit of our pioneers and our duty in light of their sacrifice. We have a world to warn, not positions to fill. We have veered wide off the mark in our spirit. We have become quite sophisticated in our language and systems but we have lost something beautiful: our simple integrity, humility and sense of world mission, our sense of brotherhood and fellowship of the work. We have become cocky and the issues we now grapple with are clear mischief designed specifically for the carnal mind. How did we get here? How did we create an environment friendly to such time wasting nonsense? The day we sought the world’s recognition and approbation. That is the disease. Sad.

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  15. Have you all read the N.A.D president’s letter here: http://www.nadadventist.org/article/1073742901/news/current-newspoints/newspoints-3-19-15-the-church-family. The letter seems to blame certain “loud voices” (like the ones presumably one this site and others) for all the “problems” over this issue. Moreover, he intimates that: “…many of our members have taken it upon themselves to create their own Great Controversy…” It’s sad how N.A.D is projecting the blame of disunity upon those faithful sentinels of truth (CAP & others) who are actually trying to keep true unity by basing that unity upon scripture. Furthermore, it’s sad how even the RBHW initiative has clearly shown a bias for women’s ordination from the various posters comments over the years. Pastors like those of the CAP are definitely in the minority in the United States. Nevertheless little flock, be encouraged because: “…for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.” (2 Kings 6:6) I pray that CAP continues to stand on the promise in Proverbs 30:5 which states: “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.” Those who are against CAP and this site are not standing on the sure word which says “every word” of God is pure. God himself will be their shield as they continue to put their trust in him and his word. The other side cannot possibly claim this promise because they are not seeking to humble themselves before “every word” of God. Jesus is our example in all things. Our savior rebuked the devil himself with “every word.” “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matt 4:4) Lord, as we approach the GC 2015 session, please let your Holy Spirit move upon the hearts of your remnant church to STAND on every word that you have spoken. We ask this prayer in your name today Lord Jesus we pray, amen.

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  16. While I understand the reason some keep describing the ordination controversy as a distraction for the church, we need to understand that this doesn’t make it unimportant. Every sin, every departure from Bible truth, whether corporately or individually, is a distraction from the church’s mission.

    In a sense, the entire great controversy between good and evil could be described in this way. God, after all, didn’t design intelligent creatures in the beginning to be involved in spiritual warfare, though such has become necessary because of the entrance of rebellion.

    It is quite wrong to say, as some in this conversation are claiming, that there is no “thus saith the Lord” opposing women’s ordination. There is indeed:

    “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God” (I Cor. 11:3).

    “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man . . . For Adam was first formed, then Eve” (I Tim. 2:12-13).

    The case against women’s ordination is as clear from inspired writings as the case against natural immortality or eternal torment is clear in the Bible. Of course, as in the cases of natural immortality and eternal torment, certain folks will find verses which appear to depart from the Biblical consensus. But when that consensus is consulted, the Biblical position becomes evident.

    The same is true for distinct gender roles in ministry.

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  17. It is a tactical move to split the church amongst other mechanisms at lower levels to wilt away, to splinter its cohesion and to diffuse its impact, possibly cut off any financial support North America gives to the world work and leave the cause in a shambolic state while other efforts are taking place to destroy other sources of church finance in the third world. Satan is on the move on many fronts against Adventism on many levels. It is a very intelligent process. What CAP needs to do is do what the GC officers are doing: talk to every church in North America and present the error and falseness of the whole issue and argument for WO; then demonstrate the implications of the fallout from the issue. Lastly focus the church on present truth. The case for WO has no merit. It is a not a genuine scriptural or doctrinal issue and since God is the employer of all workers, ordination of women policy should not be sought from the church members at large but from Biblical precedent. Besides where is the study to prove that God REQUIRES it and that the church has suffered loss because of it. The only accomplishment for WO is the putting of the church in lock-step with the world and other denominations which then leaves Catholicism by default as the only organization in line with scriptural practice on this point and makes the point that no church can claim scriptural integrity. We must all co-exist in some mutuality or tolerance. Uniformity and ecumenism is the goal and ultimately, legislation against intolerance. The result will be the isolation of Biblical integrity as anomalous to the ecumenical whole. It is a direct attack on the integrity of Adventism and an attempt to by default present | 300 limit

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  18. Hello Noel, please think about some points.
    1) CAP wishes, that every member, not only in the NAD, will read all the good and clear articles in
    ordinationtruth.com about women ordination. Therefore they have much more done for us, than the GC officers like Ted Wilson or Marc Finley do in this crisis, they are neutral – but God hates it, if leaders in a great religious crisis are neutral. I didn´t hear wether from Wilson nor from Finley their point of View to WO – like politics do. But CAP is very clear and biblical.
    2) You said: „The case for WO has no merit“, but you have forgotten, that obedience to God and His word is necessary. To ordain only man as elders is a command of God like other commands that we have to keep – please read the important article from Clinton Wahlen about the view of point of the group, who are against WO. Or shall we disobedient like Saul: „For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of trhe Lord…“ (1 Sam 15:23).
    3) We have to decide between God and his Word or the precepts of man, Bible or Tradition.
    In this manner is the question about WO very importent. If we are disobedient here, whre will we stand on the end? We are loving Jesus Christ, our Redeemer and will therefore do, want He want, that we shall do.

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  19. The word of God must prevail over every culture and human reasoning. I appreciate God for cristal clear of the word of God presented in this video. Like Elijah on mount camel, we will not be silent but say the truth as it is in God’s holy word.

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  20. I agree Erich with everything you said and I appreciate that CAP have done a lot. I am just concerned that somehow their good work gets to have as much reach as the Pro-Ordination attempts of the GC and Adventist World. I am not sure that the NAD membership as a majority favor WO. If it is so, the CAP have their work cut out for ’em. There is just this disturbing tendency to pass it and then read it among people i general, especially if a concept is viewed as new and the “in thing”. So the debate does need to be extended and deepened so that our people as a whole do not take it as a trifling matter or a passing much ado about nothing. Your perception that this a Rubicon experience is apt.

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  21. Noel, I have to question whether this is merely a “North American” issue. Women’s ordination has many supporters in Europe and Australia, and northeast Asia as well. Also, many people of African heritage strongly support it in various parts of the world. We must follow Scripture on this issue, and Scripture neither prohibits it nor mandates it.

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    • Now that is untrue – and if you have not consulted your Bible yet, then please open it up and read the texts that show the will of God yourself regarding this issue. So stop the guile. You appear to be a plant from the those on the side of this rebellion.

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  22. I was reading everything I could in EGW writings about this WO issue because the church had this issue come up in the late 1800s, I think. I noticed that she seemed VERY cautious with her remarks. I don’t know if it was because of possible apostasy beginning to occur at that time because of the women’s movement or whether the Holy Spirit wanted her to not make too many waves – having her hold off until such a day as this – the full ripening of this blasphemy against God’s Word.

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  23. An excellent explanation of about Women’s Ordination and where we all SHOULD Stand! Thank you! BTW, I am a woman 😉

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  24. While many seem to want us to believe that this issue is not Theological or important, irreligious onlooker (Like Times Magazine writer Elizabeth Dias) think it is. This is either blindness of a hypocritical desire to minimize the issue for some (especially Adventist with Historical or traditional tendencies) while at the same time encouraging the activism in others (Adventist with Evangelical tendencies).

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  25. From what I have gathered, the WO crisis started when women were allowed to be elected and then ordained as Elders. This should not have happened. Camp Mohaven was a one sided NAD affair which greatly influenced the decision makers. The pattern was the same: elect women elders before GC approval –> then a one-sided study committee makes decision for the world church –> then pass it off as a policy not a doctrinal issue to avoid going to a Session –> GC Annual Council Accepts Policy.
    Then they ordained women as elders before GC approval …
    Then they elected women as pastors before GC approval …
    Then they ordained women as pastors before GC approval …

    This should never have been allowed to happen in the first place and now the proverbial ‘chickens are coming home to roost.’ What is even more alarming is that prior to TOSC the rest to the world church was not significantly involved in the discussion, if involved at all.

    Worse still for some of us who not only weren’t involved in the discussions prior to TOSC, but even now, we have been left out without a voice after only recently finding out that our Union, The Southern Africa Union Conference (SAUC) which falls under the Southern Africa-Indian Ocean Division (SID) has come out in support of WO and has issued a report which is at variance with the BRC report submitted to TOSC by Dr. Paul Ratsara our Division President. The GC vote therefore will be skewed due to our SAUC delegates voting yes, when the majority of members in our Union are 1] not in support of WO, 2] unawares of the SAUC’s decision saying yes to WO, 3] unawares that the SAUC is at variance with the Division’s position and 4] being intentionally left out in the dark by the SAUC and the member Conferences. Talk about hijacking a vote.

    Reply

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