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Screenshot from 2015-07-09 21:39:23

The Netherlands Union of Churches (NUC) declared in 2012 and 2013 that it would ordain women, but it waited. On July 8, 2015 delegates from across the globe met for General Conference session in San Antonio, Texas. The assembled church voted it would not permit Divisions to make such determination locally. One day after, Netherlands declares it will proceed to ordain women. NUC declares that its policy will not be affected. It has before declared that it would act contrary to General Conference session actions. Now it declares it will act contrary to the 2015 General Conference session. All this, while the ink is not yet dry on the Wednesday, July 9 decision.

Translation of the statement:

The delegates of the Dutch churches voted at their Session in the autumn of 2012 to ordain women in an equal way to their male colleagues. The vote took effect in June 2013 and will remain in effect. The decision of the General Conference Session in San Antonio does not change this.

Female pastors will continue to be ordained in the Netherlands Union Conference. We thank God that he calls men and women to serve him. We want to enthusiastically confirm that call by the laying on of hands.

NUC is under the Trans-European Division. The Seventh-day Adventist Church affirmed, just one day ago, what it had voted in 1990 and 1995: that no Division nor any of its subunits has the unilateral authority to ordain women to pastoral ministry.

The website link to the page which the above screenshot is taken from as of July 9, 2015 PST is http://www.adventist.nl/2015/07/10/verklaring-inzegening-vrouwen-in-nederland/

53 thoughts on “BREAKING: Netherlands declares will ordain women anyway

  1. Please do not misrepresent the fact that Unions are under current Working Policy the church level that determines ordination. The vote this week in San Antonio was whether the Divisions should be authorized to make provision if they chose for ordination. As you rightly pointed out, this was voted down. Hence, the current policy remains unchanged, as GC Secretary Ng made clear at the Session yesterday. Therefore, a Union is not acting contrary to the GC action in the area of ordination. Thank you.

    Reply
    • You are mistaken. Consider this from the General Conference Appeal document published on July 29, 2012:

      “The world-wide Church recognizes the General Conference in Session as the highest ecclesiastical authority for Seventh-day Adventists. The 1990(3) and 1995(4) General Conference Session decisions with respect to granting ministerial ordination to women represent the current voice of the Church in this matter. The actions of certain unions indicate their desire to establish an alternative source of authority for a matter that already carries the authority of the world Church.

      “As currently understood in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, ordination to the gospel ministry is ordination to serve the global Church. No provision exists for a geographically localized ministerial ordination.(5) Consequently the decision to change or modify ordination practices is a global one and necessitates a decision from the world body.

      “For any union to introduce a different ministerial ordination practice is seen, by the rest of the Church, as readiness to set aside a world Church decision and proceed in another direction. Such actions, taken at the very time when the world Church is engaged in a study and discussion of the matter, preempt the process and any decision that might come from it. This creates widespread confusion, misunderstanding as well as erosion of trust and also nurtures doubt about these unions acting in good faith as members of the world-wide family.

      “Some who would encourage unions to proceed with ministerial ordination for women draw attention to selected statements from a General Conference Executive Committee document.(6) As used by these individuals, the statements would indicate that a union has final authority in matters relating to ministerial ordination. The intent of the document from which such statements have been taken is to emphasize the interconnectedness of Seventh-day Adventist denominational structure. The authority and responsibility entrusted to any entity of the Church is exercised within the context of beliefs, values, and policies of the entire Church. Being a part of the global Seventh-day Adventist Church obliges every organization to think and act for the good of the whole and to shun a spirit of autonomy and self-determination.”

      Read the whole document here: http://ordinationtruth.com/unity-appeals/an-appeal-for-unity/

      Reply
  2. Now the curse of delay of discipline the rebellious ones comes faster than we thought. I think, other unions will soon follow the forerunner Netherland. Spectrum has written, that the GC-Vote about WO is only “symbolic”, and the practice, what unions are doing, is another question. Now it is time, that the GC-Executivkommittee comes together and have to discipline all Unions which rebell again. If not, than the church of SDA has changed to the new order of congregationalism practical.
    Rebellion seems in the most case incurable. Probably the motive of the rebellious Unions is rather congregationalism than WO. WO is only the vehicle.

    Reply
  3. The General Conference executive must disfellowship the Netherlands Union so that there is clarity for the world. This is an Aaron and Golden calf situation. We have duty to be decisive. They have a duty to leave us and we have a duty to release them and relieve them of our name.

    Reply
    • No, they first should appeal to them to sign on with the decision of the world church officer by officer. And if not those must be replaced with conformists. Then if the whole of the Union will not conform, they must all leave office and those offices must be filled with the new representatives who are fully supportive of the World Church decisions.

      Reply
  4. We have a terrible work to do now to rid ourselves of those that would sabotage the integrity of the cause. Our whole raison d’etre is the Bible and the Bible only as the rule of faith. Those that would introduce abominations and rebellion with spacious mellifluous reasoning among us should be relieved of leadership. Let them go back to the baptismal class and re-learn the fear of God and basics of faith. We are at war with the world and they are asking us to make a unilateral surrender and stand down. This is treason of the worst kind. Elder Ted Wilson should either be clear and decisive himself or maybe hand the reigns to another and we say this respectfully. Too much is at stake here for us to cascade in confusion. We cannot and must not treat ordinary church members with severity for infractions and allow clergy to get away with blatant rebellion and sabotage of scripture. All who support the ordination of women and tolerance of homosexuality should step away from our high offices and find other line of work. We also need to revisit commissioning of female pastors and ordination of female elders. All of it needs to be clarified and resolved. God is not he author of confusion or duplicitous policies.

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  5. By the way. We cannot lose members we never had. Far better that we start the work in the Netherlands on a new foundation than have rebellion as a foundation. All Unions and conference leaders that will take a position to ordain women as ministers should be relieved of their positions immediately. We will lose more by indecisive action than we lose by immediate action. It will turn out that we may not need to remove members from church membership but leaders from church membership. We can never lose Adventists we never had. We simply cannot afford kicking this can down the road another day. Leadership purge is Biblical. “Begin at the ancient men….”

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  6. If we are not to disintegrate, to avoid congregationalism etc, we must have another meeting soon to deal with men in high office who have no respect for what this church stands for. Where the is open infraction or defiance, there must be public and immediate discipline. Most of our confusion emanates from higher offices. May our God empower the faithful ministers among us at all levels to understand this is not the day for niceness. Ministering brethren who occupy these local and administrative positions have a responsibility to spare the flock by disciplining their kind. We may well need to empower sessions to fire whole administrations. We may well need a new structure for the distribution of disciplinary powers as it seems a loyal church membership can be misrepresented by an apostate leadership and be totally unable to do anything about it. We have no local objective mechanism for retaining integrity at the grass roots level. Leaders seem to have carte blanche to mislead and misrepresent. It may be of interest to do a church audit to establish what churches in North America really think. What a shaking we face.

    Reply
    • when you appeal, the Division and GC administration send you back to have the Union mark his own paper and even changing the appeal protocol after you send in your appeal.
      it happened to me in this case…

      Reply
  7. This is a correction to the posting. I was a delegate in the 2012 Union’s session.
    Quote
    “Statement Women’s Ordination Dutch Union
    Om the 9th of July delegates of the worldwide Seventh Days Adventist Church decided to maintain the current policy with respect to the ordination of women. The head office makes in respect to this decision the following statement for clarification:
    ‘The delegates of the Dutch congregations have in the Fall of 2012 decided that in our country women ministers will be ordained, in the same way as their male colleagues. This decision came into effect in June 2013 and still stands. The recent decision of the world congress (General Conference Session) in San Antonio does not alters this.

    Even in the future women ministers will be ordained in the Netherlands. We thank God that He calls man and women to His service. As a congregation we want to wholeheartedly confirm this with the laying on of hands.’
    Posted by Tom de Bruin on July 10 2015.” Unquote. Online July 10 2015: http://www.adventist.nl/2015/07/10/verklaring-inzegening-vrouwen-in-nederland/

    Comment
    In the Fall of 2012 delegates to the Union’s Sessions decided to pass an highly ambiguous motion but also wait the outcome of the TOSC study and the GC 2015. Amending the ambiguous phrasing was not allowed in a highly undemocratic and manipulative session. The Union did not even had the decency to wait for the outcome of TOSC. And even now, they can not wait for the official end of the Sessions. While the president of the NUC on behalf of the Executive Board, on Saturday the 3th of July, called for all congregations and members to pray for the leading of the Holy Spirit in GC Sessions, he decides to ignore the ruling of the same Spirit via the world body, and to maintain a rebellious attitude.
    Are the Seventh Day Adventists in the Netherlands now members of a Reformed SDA Church?
    The Church ought to apologize to Desmond Ford if this behavior is not as publicly reproved! This will be detrimental for the unity within the Dutch church and will set a precedent for all other Church fields that contemplate to be as rebellious. Then all the prayers and the hard work of Wednesday July 8th will be of no effect. All the calls for unity will stay unheard en unheeded.
    When NG said: “with NO, current Policy stands, he did not meant Union policy. Besides no Union’s Exec can make own policy, at least not without the cnstituency. The NUC is continually bypassing constituency and when you want to make an appeal the Division sends you back to get justice at the Union’s door.

    Reply
    • This post is longer than the 300 word limit but we have allowed it in full because of the information. But would you please state exactly what the correction is?

      Reply
      • The resolution of motion, not open for amendment, stated “ASAP, but not more than 6 months after the GC Sessions 2015, equality of man and woman must be implemented in all area’s of church administration.” A effort for amendment to get the ambiguity out of the motion and to bring it in line with the discussion, namely to get the “ASAP” out, or the comma behind ASAP, and trusting the consensus process of the Church by acting according to the resolution of the world body in GC 2015, was brushed aside as “hostile”. The EC explained to me, when I appealed, that they only took the LETTER of the motion and did not considered the fact that delegates voted on bases of the explanation by the session’s policy committee. The audio tapes and minutes of the meeting were deemed invalid, “because delegates did not formally accepted them during session”. In fact they simply ignored the important part of the resolution that says, “after the GC session 2015”.

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  8. I’m so confused – can someone simply, but completely explain just what the current policy is at the GC on women’s ordination? Do the divisions have the authority to make their policies different than the GC is? Even if the unions don’t ordain women to the sacred desk, can they still not simply license or commission them to do so? How can we get rid of this practice & why didn’t the GC session tackle this practice? The problem is that God’s leadership prescription for His church is MALE elders & overseers (ministers). Was it a GC 5-year session that allowed women to be ordained as Elders?

    Reply
    • The policy is that only men can be ordained as ministers ( we should preferable not use the word pastor). An ordained minister is that to the world church, for there are world church criteria to be met for ordination. The Division has no own Ministerial handbook. They are bound by world working policy if they want to make own policy for ordination.

      World policy for females is that they can only be commissioned (male can be commissioned and licensed too). A commissioned minister is a Bible worker status. A licensed male minister is a minister in the midst of his probation period, or if he ended his probation period but does not fully comply to the criteria to be ordained.
      If you look into the Yearbook you will see many commissioned female workers. An Union can not have them registered at Division level as ordained, though they often unofficially give them an “ordained” status that counts within their Union alone. This is a practice that the Divisions have come to condone (church politics).They will not be accepted as ordained in other fields or by the world church.

      Reply
    • Authorization of women as Elders was done at GC Annual Council, not at a GC Session. And unfortunately, no GC Session since has addressed this issue, either to confirm or reject it.

      From http://www.nadwm.org/article/159/resources/official-statements-by-the-seventh-day-adventist-church-pertaining-to-women/seventh-day-adventist-church-s-position-on-women-elders-deaconesses
      “The current General Conference policy on ordination of women as local church elders is stated in the 2009 Seventh-day Adventist Minister’s Handbook, p. 94.
      “Elders and deacons should be persons of experience, chosen wisely. By action of the Annual Council of 1975, reaffirmed at the 1984 Annual Council, both men and women are eligible to serve as elders and receive ordination to this position of service in the church.”

      The late Mervyn Maxwell gave a history of Commissioning of women as pastors in Adventists Affirm at http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/article/140/women-s-ordination-faqs/3-how-money-got-us-into-trouble

      Reply
      • Thank you, Keith. I was sickened to read the last site you referenced. Oh, what a tangled web has been woven, indeed. I can only pray that Jesus gives Holy Spirit wisdom to someone that can proclaim what has transpired and the ability to correct these sins. And they are sins – all of the IRS deception that has gone on. Just look what this deception has reaped. Shame on all SDA leaders that approved this corruption. Give unto Caesar what which is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s. This behavior is what must have made Jesus weep – not the NO vote on Wednesday.

        Reply
        • Sr. Doris, you took the words right out my mouth. What is more worrying is that the GC Annual Council or GC Executive Committee seems to have more authority than the GC in full World Church Session. The Annual Council obviously is being compromised and manipulated by crafty politics and manipulation – and to think the open in prayer – what mockery!

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  9. In my humble opinion there are several reasons we are in this boat. One, EW states that the church will appear to fall but does not in the end. I firmly believe that this is apart of this process. Two, as a non-generational Adventist I see things that others don’t. What I have witnessed in my Adventist journey is everything is a suggestion because we as a church don’t believe in Black and White just alot of Grey. Three, coming from a combat arms background there were clearly defined policies, proceedures and regulations. Even the coorporate world understand this. Lastly, OUR LEADERS are not leading! I have yet to meet a truly inspiring leader in the SDA Church and this is very sad for me. We would not be here if there had been consistant God fearing leaders at ALL levels. To many of our leaders their positions are birth rites and jobs not callings.

    Blessings,

    Reply
    • Same here. I could not agree more with you. I too was not born in this church; made a conscientious decision at the age of 20, and can have somewhat a perspective from a distance. My profession is policy making and I see good policy in the church, but poor maintaining. I see business being conducted by clergy as if it’s all a divine service. I see many weak and poor ministers, who give the union and the people what they want, to have it the easy way. I see few who stand on their post unwavering. At least here in the Netherlands. I think that in the Westerns world the administrators are spoiled, because they never have learned to work under severe conditions. I see a laisser faire religion with the members, full of opinions, intellectual debates, theory believes and cultural eclecticism. Much I could care less attitude when we have such a marvelous message and such a solemn privilege to be workers together with Christ.
      My brothers and sisters, have a good Sabbath day. And let us not only make resolutions for Revival and Reformation, but also do it

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  10. Pastor Ted Wilson made it very clear when addressing the PUC Session that it was not the purview of Union Conferences to decide on the criteria for ordination. The GC Working Policy Section L35 and L45 is very gender specific in terms of only men being allowed ordination.

    I was initially under the impression that the Unions had found a loophole or technicality that gave them some authority in their “without regards to gender” frenzy vote but I have come to realise that there is no loophole or technicality that allows them to decide. They have acted outside of their scope of authority in blatant insubordination. I find it hard to believe that these are actually Seventh-day Adventists. I think that it’s time that the election and ordination of elders is dealt with also and I will be raising this matter and getting members in the pews to be aware of such unbiblical practices being imposed on the Church in stealth for the most part I would say. The Southern Africa-Indian Ocean Division BRC Report recommends we remove this unbiblical practice from the Church and I am fully in support of this.

    Reply
    • Ordaining female Elders has never even been voted on by the World Church. The GC decided on this at an annual meeting only. I would like to send my tithe to the Southern Africa-Indian Ocean Division in the future. I don’t feel right sending it to the NAD division. They spent tithe money being dishonest and behaving like bullies. They have a majority of the tithe money and are the least to deserve it. I know that Ellen White sent tithe money to those that needed it the most. I want to know how to mail my tithe to the division that needs it the most; one that follows Biblical truths, practices, and principles and is full of the Holy Spirit via Evangelism. Anyone have advice for me. Let me have it, honestly, if you believe I am off-base here. I will be praying very earnestly about this matter. I want to do what Jesus wants me to do with HIS tithe.

      Reply
      • The Church Manual in the section on tithing (page 164 I think) indicates that tithe is to be paid to the Conference through the local church where one’s membership resides. This has obviously been voted by the General Conference as it’s part of the Manual.

        Be faithful and put your tithe where it should go; that way you shall be blameless by regarding the will of the Church and the Lord will hold to account those who misuse the tithe.

        Reply
        • Thank you. It smarts like crazy, but I will submit as you have advised. Submission is really hard, but also can be so liberating. I don’t have to have a horrible battle raging inside of me.

          Reply
          • Dear Sr. Doris. I’m with you on this one and what many of our faithful brothers and sisters in the NAD who have been forced to comply with the election and ordination of elders. There is however certain guidelines that were voted by the Annual Council in ’84 (albeit done as more of a damage control mechanism to cover the error of their decision for accepting such a policy) that ‘suggests’ certain actions be followed or considered before electing or ordaining elders which I seriously doubt is carried out even for such an unbiblical practice. You can view the guidelines in full here:
            http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/article/145/women-s-ordination-faqs/10-to-ordain-or-not-to-ordain

            It is rather alarming that GC leaders of the remnant church would go ahead, even at an Annual Council at that, and make such a poor ill-advised decision without involving the full body of the church to decide. It is clear that Annual council leaders were sleeping. Perhaps is was passed by a few when others were on lunch. the way things have been going I wouldn’t put it passed them.

            I’m afraid Samuel W is right that the Church Manuel guidelines in the 2010 version on page 131 says: “How Tithe Is Handled—Tithe is the Lord’s and is to be brought as an
            act of worship to the conference treasury through the church in which the
            person’s membership is held. Where unusual circumstances exist, members
            should consult with conference officers.”

            They’ve got the tithes down tight with so much details and stringent requirements, which I really don’t mind nor have objection to, but why be so vigilant with money collecting whilst been lax with other biblical teachings and practices? So stringent and dogmatic about every little detail and wording in the Church Manual (which again I have no objection to) yet carelessly allowing the election and ordination of women as elders? We need to say to the GC – how about no!

  11. God bless Joseph and Ingrid god needs more willing apostles
    I think we need to be measured and let dust settle before acting may be in haste
    Tho I think there are plenty of less fortunate people from less fortunate countries willing to take up offices
    What we need to act on ASAP is various media from divisions it should be uniform of one body

    Reply
  12. If the bible says that we are to be united as one, just as the Trinity are (John 17), and the same bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth (John 16:13) – why would God have some believe the total opposite of what is written in scriptures. This whole saga is of the Devil to confuse, divide, and take us away from delivering our 3 angels message – Wake up Adventists, you are being led down a slippery path to enternal destruction.
    Where are the leaders saying – It is written………………

    Reply
  13. So… if I follow the policy correctly… what is next?
    Are we taking priority over the policy and putting away the Bible? Oh! I understand.. GOD IS COMING SOON!!! VERY SOON!!!

    Reply
  14. I don’t see why a woman can’t serve as an ordained minister. Many argue that it’s because God chose a man to lead it’s people yet they forget whom God chose to initiate and Guide the SDA Church. It was a woman not a man, It was Helen G White. What the General conference decides is really a group of men who think that the church is a company being run on profit and with hierarchy. They fail to understand that God expects us ALL OF US to go and spread the news to the World. NOT Man not Woman but all of us a a United front.
    Also God says that his children will be heads NOT tail. So are we not ALL his children. At the end of the day God does not care who spreads as long as his will is done. WE are EQUAL in his Eyes. God Bless, My prayers to you all.

    Reply
    • Because GOD says so – it is His Divine order & government. Our government (one of submission & obedience) is to match that of Heaven. If we can’t get it right here on Earth, we won’t be ready for it in Heaven.

      Reply
  15. I am disappointed. I sense this issue is not over. We have all along been talking about gender equality when we should have been talking about gender roles. No one doubts that men and women are equal in God’s eyes. Of course the Scriptures frequently cited regarding this talk about salvation when read in context and are not discussing roles. Not everyone is a hand, or an ear or an eye in the body of the church.

    The GC session only made a vote regarding differing policies amongst divisions. Yes, they voted correctly, but the correct questions were not asked either. Considering that ministers are elders, Biblically speaking, we have still not addressed whether women should be ordained as elders. Also, there seems like a fine line between commissioned and ordained ministers at times.

    We need to definitively close this issue, and it may be time for the dissolution of openly rebellious Conferences/Unions.

    Reply
  16. It seems leaders are repeatedly making the same mistakes over and over. Recently I saw a GC statement that acknowledged a perverse term like ‘sexual orientation’ – yet the Bible makes no acknowledgement of this being a normal human trait. They have clearly adopted another unbiblical position in accepting a secular construct as legitimate sexual behaviour. Humanist ideals and cultural norms are given prominence yet hence the compromise to elect and ordain women elders. To be brutally honest – they should have been fired then and there.

    Reply
  17. The requirements of 1 Timothy 3 make ordination of women a moot point. If you are not the husband of one wife, you simply do not meet the requirements. End of Bible study.

    Ordination is being manipulated as a device to try and supersede the Biblical requirements.

    Mixing the two different issues (Ordination and Requirements to server the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς) is the only reason this rebellion has any traction at all. “What does the Bible say” should have been the end of it.

    There is no disagreement about what the Bible says that can’t be very quickly resolved. Anyone with a Greek lexicon or Interlinear Greek/English Bible can see that “the husband of one wife”, or perhaps “one woman man”… is an accurate translation.

    The disagreement is only about if the requirements are valid, and if they are still binding on the church today.

    Paul said specifically about these requirements- “These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3

    Paul also said: “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14

    I would like to summarily refute (3) silly arguments that are supposed to set precedence for the ordination of women to serve the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς.

    #1 – Spiritual Giftedness – This is the most offensive argument to me. Spiritual Gifts are not talents, skills, aptitudes, and such. They are not some sort of prize you get when you are baptized and discovered through Personality Tests and other Psychobabble, as is being taught in many Seventh-day Adventist churches. “Look Mommy, I made this popsicle stick thing with lots of glue. My Sabbath School teacher says my Spiritual Gift is…crafts.” No!
    Spiritual Gifts are: Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healing, Miracles, Prophecy, Discernment, Tongues, and Interpretation of tongues…they are “the manifestation of the Spirit”. 1 Corinthians 12
    Spiritual Gifts are from the Holy Spirit to the church. Not from you to the church.
    Spiritual Gifts do not change the requirements to serve the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς !

    #2 – Phoebe was referred to as διάκονον/diakonon by Paul in Romans 16:1 so this is also supposed to set precedence for the ordination of women to serve the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς.

    This is how that sentence reads in English: “I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.”

    The word for servant in Greek is διάκονον – diakonon. This is a word that could mean deacon in English. Or, as the translators of almost every reliable English version of the Bible have translated it, servant.
    Only two of the 12 Bibles I checked use the English word deacon.
    The New International Version–I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. And the New Living Translation– I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a deacon in the church in Cenchrea.
    I do not trust either of these translations. And even when that English word is used, it does not mean
    Bishop/Overseer/Elder/Pastor. ἐπισκοπῆς- overseership in 1 Timothy 3:1 does not equate directly to διάκονον – diakonon- which in English is servant ( but could be translated as deacon).

    In any case, while all Deacons are servants of the church, not all servants of the church are Deacons. So which is it? Deacon or Servant ? The majority of English translators have it right. Servant does not make a contradiction with any other text.
    Paul does not in one place infer that women may be bishop/overseer/pastor/elder, because of whatever service to the church Phebe was doing, and in another place explicitly say that to serve the church in that capacity you must me the husband of one wife. There is no reason to adopt the alternate (but possible) reading and use it to make null and void every other consistent passage of scripture.

    There is nothing in Romans 16:1 to infer anything more than a recommendation/endorsement of Phoebe. The people are to receive her as good saints would do, not because she is the Saint. They are to accommodate her in whatever business she has with them because she has been a help to Paul himself and many others. The most that could be inferred from this one sentence in the Bible (Romans 16:1) is that Phoebe may have been a female deacon. Which would make her in today’s English a deaconess in the church at Cenchrea. The word deaconess was not a word in use when Paul wrote his letter to Timothy. A deaconess is not required to be the husband of one wife.

    #3 – Some are speculating that based on events that were happening around the same time that Ellen White happened to have used the words “gospel worker” in some unrelated letter that she was actually giving support to the idea of ordaining women to serve the church in the capacity of Pastor/Elder/Bishop/Overseer/Deacons… This is preposterous and nothing more than speculation.

    That’s all they have. There is no “Thus saith the Lord” that makes null and void the simple and easy to understand requirements to serve the church in this capacity. None.

    The Great Controversy chapter 37 is most relevant. Please read it if you have the time.

    “But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority—not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support.”

    Reply
  18. A few coments…..
    I read somewhere that these issues wouldn’t be at the forefront if men were doing their part in this great work. I agree 100%. I am one of those men who have stayed on the sidelines happy to have others do the work. I sit in the pews and watch as women and children take up the yoke and perform the tasks that we men should be doing. Well I have now made it my mission to get involved. I am ashamed. I plan to be in every church board meeting and supporting every way I can. Enough with my cowardly ways I am going to grow a backbone.
    I plan to support my home church with offering and send my tithe to other parts of the world church that have a Godly attitude and a biblical direction. It is sad that in the 1st world we have to support change with our money.
    Like the frog in the pot we have become complacent and allowed our surroundings get the better of us. The Lord is coming soon let’s get on with the work that He has given us MEN to do.

    Reply
    • Your tithe will be sent back to the local conference you go to church in. That’s the official policy of the world church. You are not allowed to make your own decisions about where you send your tithe. The powers that be in the church have decided that you are not capable of making sound decisions on this matter. If you send it out of your home conference, the entity that receives it is bound by church rules to send it back to your local conference. They take your name off of it and just label it tithe and send to your conference and send you a receit. You could get around this by sending your tithe to a friend or family member in the area you want your tithe to go to, and have them put it in an envelope labeled tithe but with no name on it, and somehow turn it in at their church. But this starts to feel like dishonesty and may result in the person being asked questions where they would have to themselves be dishonest in order to continue the game. I am afraid we are pretty much stuck with the current situation until the organization undergoes radical change. And it will. I personally believe that the organization we now see will soon be no more, and true SDAs will have to take up the work one by one where they live in order for the Ship to sail on. Lord help us be faithful!

      Reply
      • Kenneth, our counsel would be for church members to return the tithe God has entrusted to them through their local conference. That is the established “door” of the storehouse if you will. The church has made its decision on women’s ordination and we fully anticipate that in short order all will be brought into line.

        Reply
        • I hope so Admin. I don’t see the arrogant persons who are heading our Union’s Exec to retreat their steps and this dishonest has been brought to the TED and GC already, but they referred it back to the Union to mark its own paper. They has even gone that far to declare the minutes of the Unions session not valid since they clearly reveal that delegates did not gave the mandate to rebel against Working Policy. They have made the local churches accomplices. I am contemplating to start a impeachment procedure against our Union.

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        • I’m sorry I wasn’t clear enough in my post. I was not meaning to suggest that folks withhold or divert their tithes and offering (both are required by Him, not just tithe). I was mainly trying to clarify what happens if you send tithe outside your area so that folks can be informed on the matter. I agree that we should give our tithe and offerings with a glad heart, for He loves a cheerful giver, and vengeance is His if those funds are mismanaged. May He help us to be faithful in our individual duties. Godspeed

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  19. Unwise Leaders Do Not Speak for God
    The voice from Battle Creek, which has been regarded as authority in counseling how the work should be done, is no longer the voice of God.—Manuscript Releases 17:185 (1896). – {LDE 50.2}
    It has been some years since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.—Manuscript Releases 17:216 (1898). – {LDE 50.3}
    That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be—that is past.—The General Conference Bulletin, April 3, 1901, p. 25. – {LDE 50.4}

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  20. Dear Brothers and Sisters

    We know that this church will triumph. The future is very bright. The shaking must come so that the unity of the remnant is finalised and the Latter Rain will fall. Those on both sides of the WO are not immune to the mighty shaking. Those who are right on this issue should be watchful that they exhibit an unChrist-like disposition and attitude in their correctness. Be wary my brothers and sisters that you may miss the sealing in your correctness. The fruit of the Spirit must be manifest in each one of us during this challenging issue. Those that feel aggrieved or provoked must pray for meekness and we must always speak gently and kindly (in heart) and in word all the time. This is more critical for your salvation than being right.

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  21. As for my people, children are their taskmasters, and women rule over them. Oh my people, your rulers cause you to go astray and destroy the way of your paths.
    (Isa 3:12)

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  22. MR, 14, p.29 – The soldiers of Jesus Christ must move in concert, else it were better that they do nothing. For if one speaks one thing, and another presents ideas and doctrines contrary to his fellow laborers, there is confusion, discord, and strife. Therefore the apostle charges that all who believe on Christ be of one mind, one faith, one judgment, each moving in concert, influencing one another beneficially, because they are both obedient to the precious truth of the Word of God, attached to one Saviour, the great Source of light and truth.
    Spasmodic, disunited efforts of professed Christians are like a span of horses, both strong and active, but yet they do not pull together. One tries to start the load; the other settles back in the harness and both do not pull at the same time. God would have His workers pull together, not one pulling in one direction and another in [an] opposite direction, for all such efforts are worse than wasted.
    Those who prefer to act alone are not good soldiers. They have some crookedness in their character which needs to be straightened. They may think themselves conscientious, but they do not the works of Christ. They cannot render efficient service. Their work will be of a character to draw apart when Christ’s prayer was that His disciples might be one as He was one with the Father.

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    • yes, but those responsible must move also (1Cor.5:1-7; Tit.3:10.11). …“… I have repeatedly had this matter presented before me, that the men who are ordained to preach the word should be educated to make full proof of their ministry in their personal labors in families, talking with the members of the family, understanding their spiritual condition, encouraging, reproving with all long-suffering and doctrine, praying with them, binding up his interest with their hearts and souls. This is the work of a faithful shepherd. PH002 17.1
      But there have been solemn duties neglected in accepting ministers to labor in word and doctrine who can only preach. They do not watch for souls as they that shall give an account. They sermonize; but the work is left undone which the sheep and lambs need to have done for them. And this half-hearted kind of work has been done all through America, and money paid to men employed, when they should have been dismissed to find work less responsible and care taking…. If there is any corner of the world where churches can be built up and kept in a prosperous condition by sermonizing, while they neglect personal labor, I have yet to learn of this. PH002 17.2
      ….. And if a man fails to do this part of the work, he can not be a minister after God’s order. The churches that have such labor are disorganized, weak, and sickly, and ready to die. The sermons are not vitalized by the Spirit of God, because the blessing of God will not rest upon any man who is neglecting the flock of God. PH002 17.2
      O, should those in responsible positions, give heed to the sacred counsels earlier. We would not be in the present situation!
      Silence is a sin also

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  23. Speaking to one of the women from the Netherlands Unions, she mentioned the fact that the majority of church members in her Union did not approve women ordination, that it really is the Administration, the “very liberal” church leaders, who are pushing for women ordination. It is very disheartening that these leaders in whom we have confided behave in a rebellious way. Ellen White said the church in world session with worldwide representation is “the voice of God”. But of course these same leaders have already done away with Ellen White. It is very sad.

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    • Ma’am if this is the case then it is the electoral process that is denying the voice of its constituents and I think that this has played a major part in liberals gaining ground within the local Conferences and Unions. Those that go to the Sessions are usually either Church mascots or those not inclined to stand up and speak for truth – or those that go with the flow. It is then quite easy for administrative gurus to manipulate and control what transpires right down to the last detail. Again members in the pews need to be informed of the importance of these Sessions and adequately trained in parliamentary rules and procedures before elections are held. Most times the nominating of delegates for Sessions is done hurriedly on Sabbath during the announcements before the Divine Hour of Worship. Perhaps all these factors need to be revisited and decisions made regarding how to improve efficiency in getting a proper representation for those in the pews.

      Reply
  24. It is exciting to see God working in the EU. Someone is listening. This site and most on it are pathologically deaf.

    Reply

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